tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post2422135072641267629..comments2024-03-19T00:26:30.753-07:00Comments on The Jesus Blog: The Conservative Case against TrumpAnthony Le Donnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-30756606363007940682016-10-14T11:18:16.474-07:002016-10-14T11:18:16.474-07:00Gene Stecher
Chambersburg, Pa.
To add to the con...Gene Stecher<br />Chambersburg, Pa. <br /><br />To add to the conservative arguments against Trump, am I correct that character, ethics, and greatest respect for life have been part of the conservative/republican message in past years. Dare I list all the ways that Mr. Trump has violated those norms.<br /><br />I've also noticed that a false comparison has arisen in recent days. How Trump treats women has been compared to Bill Clinton's behavior and what Clinton had to say about the women with whom her husband was unfaithful. The correct comparison would be how Trump's treatment of women compares with Mrs. Clinton's treatment of men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-91606950118067659972016-10-12T12:35:43.109-07:002016-10-12T12:35:43.109-07:00Anthony, well said. I am frankly dismayed at the s...Anthony, well said. I am frankly dismayed at the support for the Donald by anyone, including the "rednecks" as former President Clinton called his supporters today. Why that would make them "deplorable rednecks" if we look at them from a Clinton family perspective.<br />I think the points you raise should be enough to convince anyone not to vote for Trump, but unfortunately no would likely listen as these reasons would probably be understood as too liberal, or likely just propaganda from the liberal media; some might ask, "surely those quotes can't be accurate, are they?"<br />I am just glad the election, although still nearly a month away is over. What is really sad about all of this election bantar is that these are the two individuals we have to settle for in a country full of brilliant people.<br />Archieatwright58ukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03858317793499785821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-63879718788018710982016-10-05T05:19:33.062-07:002016-10-05T05:19:33.062-07:00Hey Anthony. I'm from Venezuela, and the simil...Hey Anthony. I'm from Venezuela, and the similarities between trump and Chavez are rather striking to me and quite suggestive about how he would be while in power, this article shows those similarities (and it's pretty scary, since Chavez led Venezuela completely astray) https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/22/donald-trump-hugo-chavez-political-similarities?client=safariAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03453817340365302501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-69294021368571409842016-09-28T16:26:43.699-07:002016-09-28T16:26:43.699-07:00Probably the last true progressive nominated by th...Probably the last true progressive nominated by the Dems was Mondale. At the time, I thought Carter was pretty conservative. Bill Clinton too. As for war crimes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Soldier_Investigation. <br /><br />Let's say, the race was between Mitt Romney (who seems in retrospect like a decent guy) and George Wallace. I couldn't vote for Wallace. Maybe I'd vote for Gloria La Riva. It's like, it's easier for me to imagine abandoning Judaism than becoming a Christian. Or giving up baseball than becoming a Red Sox fan. Some stuff is just fingernails down the blackboard.<br /><br />In my life so far, I have voted ten times for POTUS, and I've never really thought hard about who I'd vote for. In the primaries? Sure. There I engaged in thought. I've also thought about which denomination within Judaism I wanted to affiliate with, but I've never seriously considered baptism. I think the comparison between religion and politics is a bit bizarre, but it's apt.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976868079076669453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-65153924825195279042016-09-28T14:51:10.050-07:002016-09-28T14:51:10.050-07:00Larry, what if the next Democratic nominee failed ...Larry, what if the next Democratic nominee failed to convince you that s/he was a progressive? Moreover, what if s/he took traditionally conservative stances on several issue important to you.... and s/he was pro-war crimes to boot? Did I mention war crimes?<br /><br />-anthonyAnthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-31219153807737054172016-09-28T14:39:24.695-07:002016-09-28T14:39:24.695-07:00I do think turn-around is fair play. I'm tryin...I do think turn-around is fair play. I'm trying to imagine, what argument could someone make to me to get me to vote Republican in a national election. Would I respond to the argument that a "true" liberal should vote for Romney over Obama? Even if the argument was persuasive? It's hard to imagine that this kind of argument would work on me.<br /><br />I think at this point, getting me to vote Republican would be about as difficult as getting me to convert to Christianity. (For those who don't know, I'm Jewish.) It would entail a similar radical shift in my personal identity. PERHAPS I could vote for a good Republican over a terrible Democrat, but I'd still feel like I lost if the Republican won.Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976868079076669453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-75945548605442931472016-09-28T10:41:34.601-07:002016-09-28T10:41:34.601-07:00Thanks, Joanne. This, of course, makes you a geniu...Thanks, Joanne. This, of course, makes you a genius too.... which makes us something other than unique as we are the same. Which in turns undermines our claims of genius. Bummer.Anthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-63281308593963476132016-09-28T10:38:49.378-07:002016-09-28T10:38:49.378-07:00Gene, I've had similar conversations with clos...Gene, I've had similar conversations with closet racists who only exhibit their racism when discussing Obama. I don't imagine that these folks will want to discuss the problem of Trump's racism. But my hope is that there are some conservatives who will indeed care deeply about some of the other issues I've addressed. Like I said, this post is just a starting point and I'm trying not to end the conversation before it begins. Anthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-13788420192208376322016-09-28T10:33:50.208-07:002016-09-28T10:33:50.208-07:00I suppose it is wishful thinking on my part that a...I suppose it is wishful thinking on my part that anyone who is committed to Trump will care much about the Geneva Conventions. But I do believe that there are intelligent and thoughtful folks who have conservative values. And I believe that many of them are willing to discuss politics under the right circumstances. Anthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-85942435736251674842016-09-28T06:54:48.412-07:002016-09-28T06:54:48.412-07:00Well written and you make your point in a way that...Well written and you make your point in a way that is not offensive. You are obviously a genius because you agree with all what I have thought of Mr. Trump. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-55820229102316445882016-09-28T00:01:21.525-07:002016-09-28T00:01:21.525-07:00Anthony –
You might have lost a lesser reader wit...Anthony –<br /><br />You might have lost a lesser reader with your suggestion that my inability to discuss Donald Trump civilly is a moral failure on my part. BUT … out of respect for your call for civility, I too will take the high ground.<br /><br />Your post is an interesting attempt to find common ground with my political opponents. I, too, wish that we could put aside differences and work for the public good. I, too, am frustrated that I cannot find much in the way of political consensus with my conservative friends. I, too, am saddened and not a little bit frightened by the political right’s embrace of Mr. Trump. I, too, wonder what it would take to lessen our political polarization.<br /><br />[I pause, to marvel at the civility of my prior paragraph.]<br /><br />So … I think it’s worthwhile to try out the argument you’re trying out. Let’s say that conservatives believe in the rule of law and the Constitution. So … if we can show that Mr. Trump opposes the rule of law and the Constitution, then conservatives should oppose him. At least, this is what I remember from my study of rhetoric: posit a major premise that your opponent (or audience) already agrees with, then argue a minor premise that (if accepted) logically pairs with your major premise to win the day. For example: major premise is that Conservatives love the rule of law, minor premise is that Mr. Trump proposes to violate the rule of law by use of torture, ergo Conservatives must vote against Trump. Something like that. I may be mixing up which premise is major; it’s been a long time since I went to college.<br /><br />I think we both understand that these kinds of arguments aren’t working. For one thing, it’s difficult to come up with major premises that are persuasive to the other side. Even if conservatives had some outsized love for rule of law, I don’t think it extends to international law. <br /><br />Besides, the conservatives have their own premises. Major premise: we cannot afford to lose the war against ISIS. Minor premise: torture is an effective military tool. Ergo: the hell with the Geneva Convention. To be perfectly honest, this is a very good rhetorical argument. Rule of law? Sure. But I don’t want my family’s heads cut off. But what makes the argument so effective is that it bogs down us progressives in an argument over whether torture is an effective tool. Even winning the argument tends to establish the premise that when it comes to war, pragmatism trumps principle.<br /><br />In any event … my guess is that you’re not going to be persuaded that torture is ever justified, no matter what argument anyone comes up with. So why do you expect people on the other side to back down from their deeply held principles, just because you think it’s logical that they do so? Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976868079076669453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-64048029197387290842016-09-27T12:58:31.912-07:002016-09-27T12:58:31.912-07:00Gene Stecher
Chambersburg, Pa.
I see Trump as an ...Gene Stecher<br />Chambersburg, Pa.<br /><br />I see Trump as an immature personality with strong narcissistic traits and a touch of megalomania. He taps into a certain type of polarized non-critical thinking promulgated across the generations by those who don't understand and fear change oriented educated power. An example of educated power would be climate change and clean power proponents. Other differences, such as race, exacerbate this hate potential. For example, in the last year I've had two working class folk in my home (antennae repair and tree trimming), one who said of Obama, "I can't wait till that thing leaves office," and the other who claimed the need to "get rid of Obama cause he's an Iranian, he's secretly helping them." It's a type of paranoia that becomes very short-sighted in the presence of "tough talk." They like tough talk because their own talk has no power. They want the power though, because in each case similar comments were continued at some length when I (without rancor) refused to respond to their initiative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com