tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post5345083296025786334..comments2024-03-19T00:26:30.753-07:00Comments on The Jesus Blog: Holocaust or Shoah? : Scratching the Surface of How Christians and Jews Remember Differently - Le DonneAnthony Le Donnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-31205978477141811912013-12-12T09:03:01.836-08:002013-12-12T09:03:01.836-08:00...and I would also agree that there is good reaso......and I would also agree that there is good reason to distinguish between "the final solution" and the larger practice of mass murder of non-Jews. It is quite clear that the genocide of Jews in particular was especially important to the Aryan program. <br /><br />-anthonyAnthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-84208627264878421842013-12-12T08:55:56.791-08:002013-12-12T08:55:56.791-08:00Thanks Larry. Of course, you're right: the Hol...Thanks Larry. Of course, you're right: the Holocaust / Shoah is "a crime against humanity". (BTW, this is a phrase that was made popular at Nuremberg.) My central point is that the Holocaust occupies different mnemonic space and with different mnemonic function for (most) Jews and non-Jews. The fact that some folks have developed event-specific terminology is just an indication of this.... still, the differences in the definitions and connotative values are striking no matter what the label is.<br /><br />-anthonyAnthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-43695439662465937812013-12-12T08:45:14.550-08:002013-12-12T08:45:14.550-08:00ha! thanks.ha! thanks.Anthony Le Donnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01282792648606976883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-84906694154755332682013-12-12T02:51:16.052-08:002013-12-12T02:51:16.052-08:00Thanks for this post anthony. Just one quick typo:...Thanks for this post anthony. Just one quick typo: "and this point cannot be understated" - I think you mean it cannot be overstated.Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01054171196833894625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8637125351921336084.post-54159913746286442992013-12-11T23:05:25.072-08:002013-12-11T23:05:25.072-08:00Anthony, much to say here, but I only have time fo...Anthony, much to say here, but I only have time for a quick note. I’ve never before encountered a distinction between “Holocaust” and “Shoah” based on one of these terms referring exclusively to the murder of Jews by the Nazis, and the other term referring to all victims of Nazi genocide. There has certainly been discussion of whether the term “Holocaust” should refer only to the Nazi murder of Jews. The Yad Vashem website defines “Holocaust” as “the sum total of all anti-Jewish actions carried out by the Nazi regime”, and goes on to describe the Holocaust as “part of a broader aggregate of acts of oppression and murder of various ethnic and political groups in Europe by the Nazis.” In other words, Yad Vashem does not consider the Nazi murder of Gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled and others to be part of “the Holocaust.” This is most clearly seen in the Yad Vashem page describing these murders, titled “Non-Jewish Victims of Persecution in Germany.”<br /><br />There are Jews who argue that there are reasons to distinguish between the Nazi effort to eradicate world Jewry and the Nazi murder of vast numbers of non-Jews, and perhaps this argument is reflected in the definitions we find for “Shoah”, which (being a Hebrew word and initially an Israeli term) reflect a Jewish view of things (embodied in the way Jews view both “Holocaust” and “Shoah”). Personally, I find it hard to draw such distinctions, and I side with people like Hannah Arendt who see the Holocaust (or the Shoah) primarily as a crime against humanity; even if Jews were the primary victims of this crime, the law that was broken here is one that protects (or should protect) all people. Still, the Jewish memory of the Holocaust will, quite naturally, focus on the devastation it wrought on the body of European Jewry, once the intellectual and emotional heart of Judaism, which was for all intents and purposes eradicated. Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08976868079076669453noreply@blogger.com